way to go NYT

"dumpsterfire!" (2020covidsux) 03/24/2019 at 09:04 • Filed to: None

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

summary- you are more attentive driving a stick and technology is making people (not Oppos, of course) not pay attention. Opinion written by a psychiatrist, not vehicle performance analyst.

see, we’re not crazy for wanting sticks. our mom’s had us tested.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > dumpsterfire! 03/24/2019 at 09:51

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“Backup cameras, mandatory on all new cars as of last year, are intended to prevent accidents. Between 2008 and 2011 , the percentage of new cars sold with backup cameras doubled, but the backup fatality rate declined by less than a third while backup injuries dropped only 8 percent.”

So what you’re saying is... it worked? It only became an issue for the driver when they switched from their car to another lacking the aids. The solutions isn't "eliminate aids", it's to continue to implement them. The aids work!

That whole article is kinda dumb. The argument it makes is that if a system is not 100% effective at eliminating incidents, we shouldn’t have it at all. Also, driving stick absolutely does not make you a more attentive driver. That’s a dumb argument. Driving stick made me a more attentive driver for like, the first month I bought my car. Shifting has become such an automatic routine that I don’t even notice I’m doing it. If anything, it makes me a more dangerous driver and a greater road hazard since the risk of stalling out has been increased an infinite degree.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 10:00

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They also said driving stick makes it more difficult to eat, drink or use a phone. Yeah, that's true, but guess what? I'm still gonna do all of those things! That makes me even more dangerous!

jvirgs drives a Subaru > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 10:19

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Exactly. I spend a good amount of time in my vehicle traveling to clients and I would eat in my Dart all the time. The manual made it more difficult but I still did it and it was definitely more dangerous. 

facw > dumpsterfire! 03/24/2019 at 10:32

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I think this greatly underestimates people. I really doubt giving them one more thing to worry about makes them pay attention more, I suspect it just makes them more distracted.

TheJWT > dumpsterfire! 03/24/2019 at 10:40

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My 2 cents is that people who go to the trouble of buying and daily driving a manual car were probably already more interested in driving, and therefore more attentive drivers.

I don’t think that making something harder for someone who has no interest in that thing is going to solve very many problems.

facw > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 10:41

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I’m not sure it changes the argument here, but backup cams are not considered to be a good deal from a cost/benefit standpoint (at least in terms of saving lives/pr eventing injuries). They are a relatively expensive way to save lives. Everyone was able to get on board though because saving lives or not, they are a relatively desirable feature in general, and because the victims of accidents tend to be children.

Honeybunchesofgoats > dumpsterfire! 03/24/2019 at 10:59

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I think the author conflates attentiveness with stimulation too much in assuming that having to focus on shifting will avoid drivers seeking out distractions.

The problem with reckless drivers isn’t that they’re lulled into a sense of security through safety features, it’s that they don’t appreciate how genuinely dangerous an accident is. For ever Tesla driver taking a nap with Autopilot on, there are ten people driving recklessly or texting in a mid-90s shitbox. The commonality between those groups is that neither one thinks they’re going to get into an accident in the first place. 

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 11:28

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A bu rger in one hand, shake in the othe r, steering with your knees. That’s the American Way.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 11:28

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my brother and i believe most of italy...likes to talk with his hands

its a little unnerving as a passenger to have him telling a story waving both hands about whilst doing 150kmh on the highway

i wouldnt complain if he got a car with lane assist and automatic braking

smobgirl > dumpsterfire! 03/24/2019 at 11:35

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Just anecdotal experience, but many cars with backup cameras also have beeping sensors and many people already ignore the camera and wait for the beep. My car was nearly squashed just yesterday by a Suburban backing out of a space without looking. 

DipodomysDeserti > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 11:35

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The only valid point you’re making is that you shouldn’t be allowed to drive a vehicle.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > facw 03/24/2019 at 11:52

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Per the article, backup injuries dropped by 8%. That’s significant.

An aftermarket backup cam is like, $80. That's not too expensive a way to avoid running over kids and animals behind your car. 

facw > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/24/2019 at 12:09

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8% of a small number is a small number. There really aren’t that many of these types of deaths, so outfitting every car on the road to stop them is a comparatively expensive solution. Other safety measures (though admittedly, I can’t remember what right now) could reduce deaths by the same amount (though probably different people would be saved) by the same amount for a lower price per life saved.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > TheJWT 03/24/2019 at 19:48

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Also given the death of manuals in mainstream cars, I would guess highly skewed to sporty vehicles, that are better maintained than average, driven fewer miles, and in more rural/suburban areas. 

TheJWT > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 03/24/2019 at 21:04

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Exactly; you’re not going to end up with a manual car by accident.

BigBlock440 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/25/2019 at 08:03

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8% of 292/18000, is 23/1440 prevented by adding that $80 backup camera to 17,539,052 vehicles.  O r $ 1, 403, 124, 160  to save 23 people.  Pretty broad brush for a problem that only affects such a small number of vehicles/people, and could be largely mitigated by paying the fuck attention.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > BigBlock440 03/25/2019 at 08:52

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Not really sure how you see in your mirrors' blind spot with no camera but ok

BigBlock440 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/25/2019 at 09:41

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You look before you get in and pay attention to your surroundings, the same way people have been doing it for decades . This isn’t rocket science.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > BigBlock440 03/25/2019 at 12:28

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Right, but kids and animals like to walk around. If it isn’t in view, you don’t know for certain.

Also, conflating the cost of an aftermarket unit as the same as for a fully integrated unit in a new vehicle is a bad argument. 

BigBlock440 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/25/2019 at 12:44

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1) make sure it is in your view

2) teach your kids to not walk behind the cars or anywhere the driver can’t see you

3) you can see the back of your car when you get in, you can see out your windows, how do you not see anybody moving towards your car aside from a willful ignorance of your surroundings? If you’re the type to just slam it in reverse without looking, why would you bother looking at a backup camera?

Instead of aftermarket costs (that you used), should I use the cost from the OEM? To get a backup camera on them could cos t $3k+, so $52, 779, 156, 000 per year.